Sexy Secrets Radio — Kathi and Abigail — Part 1 Edited composition 21:07. Speaker labels are automated and may be incorrect where voices overlap. Timestamps are from the edited Descript composition. [00:00–00:24] Kathi: Hello, and welcome to Sexy Secrets Radio. So Sexy Secrets Radio has been a while since we've been on the air, and we're back. We're doing some new and different things. This is Kathy Pepper, and I'm your host. And today with me is Abby from Downtown Abby in Laurel. I'll let you do your own introductions. [00:24–00:55] Abigail: Thank you, Kathy. Hi, everyone. I'm so excited to be here. My name is Abigail. I am a licensed medical massage therapist, practicing here in the State of Mississippi now. my perspective on, stress and relationships, you know, comes directly from my experience at the treatment table. But I, I am so excited to get invited, with Miss Kathy, and I would say the... [00:55–01:06] Abigail: my knowledge in Southeast Asian traditional healing- Mm-hmm ... natural healing, mixed with the Western education would actually help the community. [01:06–01:21] Kathi: Absolutely. And so, so what we're talking about today is stress. We all have it. We don't know what to do with it. And, and so today we want to... Well, actually, let me rewind for just a second. [01:21–01:49] Kathi: Let me tell you guys what I'm doing and kind of why, why that's relevant. So, yes, I'm the... My husband and I are the owner and operators of Pepper's Parties and Pepper's Parties 2, and we are moving into a different sector of our career. And while James and I both have advanced degrees in psychology, this is, we, we have opened up a private practice. [01:50–02:18] Kathi: I'm doing couples coaching, couples counseling, intimacy therapy, and more. And, and Abigail and I are both renting a space at Hall Health in Downtown Hattiesburg. So Abigail has two locations. So you can find her Downtown Hattiesburg and Downtown- Laurel ... Laurel. So, that's why she's Downtown Abby. Yes. [02:18–02:28] Kathi: And so, so today we wanna talk about stress and the effects that it has on your relationship, and what can we do about it? [02:29–02:29] Kathi: Wanna take a pause? [02:31–02:31] Abigail: No, you're good. [02:31–02:32] Kathi: Okay. [02:32–02:53] Abigail: So in the massage perspective, stress does affect our body, and even with my personal experience, too. Mm-hmm. And being a massage therapist and personal experience myself how stress affects our body, it does affects, our relationship. [02:53–02:54] Kathi: Definitely. [02:54–03:05] Abigail: Yes. because when you are on stress, you gonna be on a fight or flight. That's gonna be the situation of your cen- central nervous system. [03:05–03:09] Kathi: Most definitely. Yes. Oh, our central nervous system. Mm-hmm. That is so important. [03:10–03:19] Abigail: Yes. And it makes you so sensitive with just, even just a little change of the facial, facial expression. [03:19–03:19] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [03:19–03:24] Abigail: Or just a little change of the tone of voice of your partner. [03:24–03:25] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [03:25–03:34] Abigail: You know, even if they did not mean anything, but because you are so stressed out and your nervous system is on fight or flight, you are so hypervigilant. [03:35–04:12] Kathi: Right. Absolutely. And you know, stress, stress in a relationship, can really take the happy away from the, I, my, my train of thought just, left me for a second. But, but stress on a relationship, I mean, we, we all have it. We have those outside stressors, and it's what we do with it. So while it's important to talk it out, a lot of times, sometimes you have to work it out- Yes ... get the stress out of your body, get the toxins out of your body, and those kind- Uh-huh [04:12–04:13] Kathi: of things. [04:13–04:37] Abigail: Yes. So- Sometimes, I guess it depends on the level of your stress. Sometimes we can peak talk ourselves and say like, "Hey, you're gonna be fine. You're gonna be fine," right? But sometimes it's gonna be harder, especially on the level of your stress is kind of like severe, [04:37–04:39] Kathi: 100%, because, I mean, think about this. [04:39–04:48] Kathi: There's a, there's a big difference between the stress of, oh, just some everyday, you know, missing an appointment or something like that- [04:48–04:48] Abigail: Yes [04:48–04:57] Kathi: ... versus, you know, maybe the, the grief stress. Yes. Maybe you've lost somebody, maybe you're grieving over something else. [04:57–04:57] Abigail: Yes. [04:57–05:02] Kathi: so yes, w- the types of stress can, can vary tremendously. [05:02–05:15] Abigail: Yes. And when you are stressed, it's like an alarm that would goes off in your brain, and it floods your body with adrenaline and stress chemicals. [05:15–05:15] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [05:15–05:27] Abigail: And it's like a brain overdrive. You know, like, over time, these chemicals will, will definitely wear out your brain's patience center- [05:27–05:28] Kathi: Mm-hmm [05:29–05:35] Abigail: ... and turn up your internal volume for fear and anger, 'cause you'll be hypervigilant. [05:35–05:40] Abigail: You will be either, like, so easily to get upset, to, to get mad- [05:41–05:41] Kathi: Mm-hmm [05:41–05:42] Abigail: ... or you'll get defensive. [05:42–05:56] Kathi: Oh, definitely. You know, there's, there's four different interrelationships. There's, there's four... W- I'm working on a, a class right now- Uh-huh ... and it's called How to Fight. Yeah. And, and really what it is, I'm not gonna teach you how to fight. [05:56–06:15] Kathi: It's not a martial arts class or anything like that. It's more of a, how to communicate with- Yes ... your partner. And, you know, some of the, I guess personality traits or, or, or motives in, in an argument, you know, defensiveness, criticism, sarcasm, stonewalling. Some- [06:15–06:23] Kathi: Yes ... some of these are, you know, the way... When people have high stress levels, when they're trying to communicate with their partner- [06:23–06:23] Abigail: Yes [06:23–06:26] Kathi: ... sometimes these are the things that come out. [06:26–06:33] Abigail: Yes. Yes. That, that's true, because w- when your body thinks it's fighting an emergency- [06:34–06:34] Kathi: Mm-hmm [06:34–06:38] Abigail: ... it completely shuts down non-essential systems, you know. [06:38–06:43] Abigail: Your, your body will get kind of like cave in. [06:44–06:44] Kathi: Mm. [06:44–06:58] Abigail: You know? And that's when you started feeling like a knot in your stomach, or hyperventilation. And it actually definitely turn off your reproductive system too. [06:58–06:58] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [06:58–07:08] Abigail: because for the women's reaction, And that affects how, which you just mentioned, that affects how, like, they communicate with each other. [07:08–07:08] Kathi: Absolutely. Yeah. [07:08–07:36] Abigail: Because when women get stressed out, their hip will lock in, their inner thigh will lock in. You know, they get stiff. Their lower back. Mm. You know, their, their pelvis. So it's like it's blocking in the blood flow. We're talking about the, the, physical effect- Right ... which actually, you know, affects our whole body too and how w- how we respond to stress. [07:36–07:45] Abigail: Mm-hmm. So when we do that, we are blocking the blood flow in this area. That's under women's- Wow ... yeah, side. And then we get so snappy. [07:45–07:45] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [07:45–07:54] Abigail: You know, kind of like that. Mm-hmm. We, we become defensive that we don't know how to properly communicate with, our partner. [07:54–07:55] Kathi: Absolutely. [07:55–08:04] Abigail: And then on, on men's side, the, physically the stress constrict the blood vessels. [08:05–08:05] Kathi: Mm. [08:05–08:12] Abigail: And it's the same thing because blood flow is diverted into your arms and legs to fight or to run away. [08:12–08:12] Kathi: Uh-huh. [08:12–08:29] Abigail: You know? That's kind of like the effect of the stress. So it takes blood away from your core, cau- causing all of that, performance or it affects your mindset. Mm-hmm. Because your mind is already set up to fight or run away. [08:29–08:32] Kathi: Right. I mean, that's the ca- whole caveman model. [08:32–08:32] Abigail: Yes. [08:32–08:33] Kathi: Right? [08:33–08:38] Abigail: Instead of... And, and that takes away from, like, communicating- [08:38–08:38] Kathi: Mm-hmm [08:38–08:40] Abigail: ... our situation to our partner. [08:40–08:41] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [08:41–08:53] Abigail: So that's why sometimes it's like, "Don't bother me," you know. Right. Kind of like that. Right. So I think, this is going to be so wonderful for everybody to tune into. [08:53–09:05] Kathi: Mm-hmm. Me t- I think so. I'm excited. I'm excited about what we're doing together, because it... Because, like, I know a good massage makes my body feel- [09:05–09:05] Abigail: Mm-hmm [09:06–09:09] Kathi: ... so much better afterwards. [09:09–09:09] Abigail: Yes. [09:09–09:12] Kathi: I mean, I sleep better. I mean, think about all the different ways- [09:12–09:13] Abigail: Yes. Yes [09:13–09:19] Kathi: ... that it, affects us. And because when you don't sleep, you're even more grumpy- Yes [09:19–09:24] Kathi: and irritable- Yes ... and sarcastic, defensive. Yes. You're all these things when you don't sleep. [09:24–09:31] Abigail: Just imagine when your body is locking down, and it prevents the blood flow in certain areas of your body. [09:31–09:32] Kathi: Mm-hmm, [09:32–09:47] Abigail: mm-hmm. That does not make you feel good, right? Right. So when a client's body or when an individual's body is physically locking down and losing its natural circulation, it makes the intimacy feel like a chore. [09:47–10:04] Kathi: Exactly right. And, and that's the last thing that we want from intimacy. you want that, you know, intimacy is something that you... it, it's interesting because I did a class on intimacy recently too, and, and there's several different types. Hi [10:05–10:07] Abigail: Oh, yeah, you can sit down. Sorry. [10:08–10:08] Kathi: Let's go [10:09–10:34] Kathi: Hey, James, our light was just flashing. Does... This was just flashing. Does that have a meaning? Nope. Go ahead with it. Okay. All right All right, so, so with intimacy, you know, we often, especially when it comes to, emotional intimacy, it's something that we crave with each other. Mm-hmm. but it's also something, if you've been hurt before- Yes [10:34–10:57] Kathi: a lot of times you'll... kind of what you're talking about with the fight or flight. Yeah. We will, as humans, we will, shut down. Yes. And, and pr- but protect ourselves, because we don't wanna, it... and it puts ourselves in a conflict, because we, we crave that intimacy. We crave that emotional, intimacy that we want with our partner. [10:57–11:20] Abigail: Mm-hmm. But at the same time, if we've been hurt, we often block that off, so to protect ourselves. Yes. That's what, in the massage, perspective, that's what we call the muscle lock. Right. so when you are mentally stressed out, your muscles automatically tighten up- Mm-hmm ... to protect your vital organs. [11:20–11:46] Kathi: Right. Yeah. It, it's a, that's a natural, you know, ancient reflex of an individual. When you... so I have a question for you. When you're massaging somebody, can you feel that? Yes, I do. Yes. And, and in fact, I have run into a lot of my clients, several of my clients, that when I see that... because, there is what they call, like, tur- turtle neck. [11:46–12:12] Kathi: Mm-hmm. So when we get stressed out, that's why a lot of people would say, "I carried all of my stress in my shoulders." On your shoulders. Yeah, so we call it turtle, turtle neck. So we do it like this. Oh, I do that. I'm so bad at that. Yes. It's just because, like, mentally, you know, we may have a lot of things in our head, so we tend to like that, because we're trying to protect what we have in our head, especially if we don't write down. [12:12–12:38] Kathi: Mm-hmm. that's why, for me personally, writing down what I need to do, like the next day or in the future, some points that I want to remember, journaling is very helpful. Definitely. that then I don't have to keep it in my head. Mm-hmm. Because if I do that, it tends, it makes me tend to have a turtle neck syndrome, because I'm protecting that area- Right [12:38–13:02] Abigail: in my brain so I won't forget everything. You know, I do the, I do that with, I usually keep a notepad and a pen- Uh-huh ... on my nightstand. Mm-hmm. Because sometimes I'll wake up at 3:00 in the morning- Yeah ... and my brain is spinning. Yes. And, and it, it cycles, and it's just- Yes ... going over and over and over, and it's something that I'm trying to make sure that I don't forget. [13:03–13:27] Kathi: But if I write it down- Then I can let my brain relax- Yes ... and go back to sleep. And just imagine just that. A- and just think about it. Just imagine you're lying down in bed with your partner, but there's a lot of things that's going on in your head. Mm-hmm. And just because of that, it kinda takes away your desire of intimacy- Mm-hmm [13:27–14:04] Abigail: because you're trying to protect that, y- you know, that part of your brain, not to forget that. Mm-hmm. Y- y- you know what I mean? Absolutely. Just... It might just be as simple as that. Mm-hmm. But just imagine how much chances do we put our relationship at risk- Mm ... just for that. Yeah. Yeah. So sometimes, you know, like the turtleneck, trying to protect what we have in our, in our head, not only that it affects, like, our shoulder, we also, like, clench our jaw. [14:05–14:34] Kathi: Oh, yeah. And a lot of people did not realize about it, but try to clench your jaw. Mm-hmm. Try to clench your jaw. Mm-hmm. And then have a turtleneck. How does it feel from the back of your neck all the way to your sacrum? It needs to be relaxed. In that spine, right? Right. You feel the tightness. Mm-hmm. Yes. And just imagine that just by that, you are blocking the blood flow down to this part of your body. [14:34–14:59] Kathi: Oh, wow. Wow. Does it make sense to you? Yes, it does. Yes. It does. And that- And I'm guilty of turtleneck too. I am. I... My shoulders are always up. And that takes away the intimacy. Mm-hmm. It just, like, you don't want to be feel touched because you are, your whole body is so tight. Mm-hmm. Sometimes, like, I remember during the times that I was, very, highly stressed out- Mm-hmm [14:59–15:21] Abigail: like, even just a touch is kinda, like, hurts me. Mm-hmm. And I have clients that had experienced the same thing. Right ... that they said, like, if their partner, their husband touched them, it's like they jerk. It's a jerk. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because their nervous system is, like, guarding. Yes. You know? That makes sense. [15:21–15:54] Abigail: Yes. It makes sense. Huh? Do you need a massage? No. Okay. Gotcha. So- the constant muscle tightness, you know, like it causes us to squeeze our nerves and blood vessels, and this is why, like, stressed individuals- Mm-hmm ... like for example my clients, constantly complain to me about blinding tension headaches, an upset stomach, and feeling physically exhausted before even the day begins. [15:54–16:14] Kathi: Wow. But just imagine that they have to go to work e- even after feeling that way. Mm-hmm. And then they come back, they come back home to their partner. They don't have enough energy anymore. And then because of the stress, they probably, don't communicate like how they- Mm-hmm ... needed to with their partner all day. [16:15–16:55] Abigail: But this is what they say. This is from what I have, learned, is that- Lovemaking to your spouse- Mm-hmm ... you know, making love to your spouse, the, it's not just about the physical touch. Mm-hmm. It started the minute you wake up, you know? And how you communicate- Mm-hmm ... with a person, that starts with that. You know, is one of the things that, that I talk to couples about whenever we're talking about intimacy is that, sometimes morning sex Can be, can be better, or lovemaking, as you call. [16:55–17:17] Kathi: Uh-huh. sometimes that can actually be better because think about this, you know, as you- You start the day ... Right. You start the day, you're fresh. it's a good way to start your day 'cause then y- when you, when you have orgasms, your body, it, it, it releases the oxytocins. Mm-hmm. It releases- The bonding hormone, yeah [17:17–17:39] Kathi: all your... Yes, all your good, your good hormones, all the, all those feel-good hormones and neurotransmitters. You release dopamine and serotonin. Uh-huh. And all of those are our feel-good neurotransmitters. The happy hormones. Happy hormones. Okay. but think about this. Like, okay, so you get up, you go to work, you know. [17:39–18:00] Kathi: Let's say you didn't have sex that morning. You get up, you go to work, you got a full day at work. Maybe you had a hard day. Maybe you had an easy day. And then whenever you get home, depending on what your lifestyle looks like, let's say you have 2.3 children. So then you've got to do homework, cook dinner, laundry, you know. [18:00–18:20] Kathi: I don't know what the, your list is that you have to do whenever you get home, but a lotta times it's like we have a second job whenever we get home. Yeah. And then, and then at 10:30 at night or whatever time by the, you know, by the time that you've gotten the kids in bed and, and everything, you're exhausted. [18:20–18:44] Abigail: Yes. And you have nothing left in the tank to give. And then, you know, the, then the most important part of your, of your life, you know, your relationship with your partner is your most important relationship that you'll have, because they're the person that you've committed your life to. Yes. Yes. and then that person gets the short end of the stick, and that's not fair. [18:45–19:18] Abigail: Yeah. that's what we mentioned earlier- Mm-hmm ... that's like the, the touch fatigue. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it makes the other person, when you touch them, it's like it's, it's painful. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Because you, not only that you build up that, hypersensitivity because of the stress, you also, a lot of us, not knowingly, but we also build up an intimacy wall- Right [19:18–19:44] Abigail: between you and your partner. Right. So- That's your protective wall. Yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Because your muscles are tight, you're sore all day, your sensory bucket is full- Yes ... already. So by the evening, you know, when your partner reach out to touch you, for you, it doesn't feel like love, and for the other person, it feels like you did not want them. [19:44–20:09] Kathi: That's exactly- They felt unwanted ... that's exactly it. That's exactly right. and, you know, your partner should be your, your place of, Safety. Yes. Yes, right? Yes. Like, you can be vulnerable. Well, and that's part of the definition of intimacy, is allowing yourself- Yes ... to be vulnerable. That's part of it, yes. [20:09–20:26] Kathi: A, a lot of people, when you say the word intimate, they, they think you're talking about just sex. Just physical, yeah. Mm-hmm. So while there's a physical intimacy, there's sexual intimacy, there's spiritual intimacy. There's a lot of- Emotional ... there's emotional. There's, there's several different types of intimacy. [20:26–20:52] Abigail: Mm-hmm. I mean, like, when I think of intimacy, to me, one of the biggest parts of intimacy is sleeping with someone, just sleeping. Yes. I'm not talking about, you know- Yes, yes ... physical, physical activity, because when you're sleeping, you're the most vulnerable. Mm-hmm. You know, you're asleep. Mm-hmm. You're, you're allowing yourself to be completely vulnerable- Vulnerable, yes [20:52–21:07] Kathi: when you're asleep. Yes. Sorry, I got a little off track there. No, you're good. You're good. And al- also, like, when you are tense, you know, you're so caught up, well, with all the stress and you're-