Sexy Secrets Radio — Kathi and Abigail — Part 3 Edited composition 21:31. Speaker labels are automated and may be incorrect where voices overlap. Timestamps are from the edited Descript composition. [00:00–00:10] Abigail: Aside from the massage, therapy that, they can do, to help deal with the stress, Mm-hmm [00:10–00:17] Kathi: Well, and that's what, and, and part of that's is, is what, what I do is, is help people process their stress. [00:17–00:17] Abigail: Uh-huh. [00:17–00:22] Kathi: And so, you know, a lot of times people don't know the difference between coaching and counseling. [00:23–00:31] Kathi: So in coaching, we teach people how, how to deal with a certain situation. [00:31–00:31] Abigail: Yes. [00:31–00:45] Kathi: So it's more, so coaching, coaching doesn't diagnose. It doesn't go back and look, look at your childhood. It looks at what we have going on right here, and how can we fix this and make this better. [00:45–00:45] Abigail: Mm-hmm. [00:45–00:49] Kathi: Whereas counseling, counseling is for deeper issues. [00:49–00:54] Kathi: Counseling is when there's pro- somebody probably has a diagnosis. [00:54–00:54] Abigail: Yes. [00:55–01:18] Kathi: and it g- it, it takes a deeper dive, if you will, and it looks at the why. And it goes back and it processes some of the backstory, if you will. Whereas coaching, and so sometimes people start with coaching- Mm ... because sometimes people don't really wanna do that deep dive within themselves. [01:18–01:21] Kathi: The hardest person to look at is yourself in the mirror, right? [01:21–01:21] Abigail: Yes. [01:21–01:39] Kathi: So sometimes people, and, and counseling does help you to do that tremendously. And so if you really wanna get to the root of problems, that's where counseling kinda comes in, whereas coaching is a little bit more, "Let's don't worry about the why, let's just fix it." [01:39–01:40] Abigail: Yes. [01:40–01:40] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [01:40–01:40] Abigail: Yes. [01:41–01:58] Kathi: And so either, either way can be beneficial for couples, and a lot of times people start with coaching because it sounds less intimidating. Mm-hmm. And then sometimes people realize that, "Hey, maybe we need to switch to counseling." Yes. So I can help with both of those. [01:59–01:59] Abigail: Wonderful. [01:59–02:04] Kathi: And that's why I call it, so the name of my new business is, Couples Solutions- [02:04–02:04] Abigail: Mm-hmm [02:04–02:15] Kathi: by Kathy Pepper. And that's one of the things that I help couples to do, is to, is to talk it out, give them some, give them some good communication skills. Yes, [02:15–02:15] Abigail: yes. [02:15–02:20] Kathi: You know, and let's, because I think sometimes we don't realize how we come across to people. [02:21–02:21] Abigail: Yes. [02:22–02:28] Kathi: You know? And, and that's part of what coaching does, is helps you, helps you to look at how you come across to other people. [02:29–02:35] Abigail: Does, In the massage, perspective, they call it, like, speaking with your body. [02:35–02:35] Kathi: Mm. [02:35–02:50] Abigail: You know? So for example, sometimes when we are so stressed out, like our, you know, our body are in pain, Mm-hmm ... is in pain. Our spinal, our spine is, like, so stiff. [02:50–02:51] Kathi: Mm. [02:51–02:56] Abigail: And because of that feeling, you know, it affects our brain, it affects how we talk. [02:56–02:57] Kathi: Sure. [02:57–03:08] Abigail: You know? And so but it's just the stress. So sometimes you might say, "You're stressing me out," you know- Right ... kind of like that. But it's just because this person is so stressed out, you know? [03:08–03:10] Kathi: Well, and yeah, you're right. That's when you feed off of each other. [03:10–03:11] Abigail: Yes, yes. [03:11–03:12] Kathi: The contagious that you called it. [03:12–03:32] Abigail: Yes. And then the- the body awareness, instead of saying those words, make the other person, like, help you. Just say, "My, my spine is so tight." [03:32–03:33] Kathi: Mm. [03:33–03:37] Abigail: " My chest feels so, you know, like, tight" [03:37–03:38] Kathi: Mm-hmm [03:38–03:44] Abigail: ... or something like that, and, "My body is so overwhelmed right now," instead of saying, "You're stressing me out." [03:45–03:48] Kathi: Right. Well, I think it's important to take ownership of your own- [03:48–03:49] Abigail: Yes [03:49–03:50] Kathi: ... of your own stress. [03:50–04:00] Abigail: Yes. So i- the, so, if we do that, that it stops the fights before it ever even started. [04:00–04:08] Kathi: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Totally. Well, and it's funny because one of the things that I'm, I'm working on is a, a premarital, therapy. [04:09–04:09] Abigail: Yes. [04:09–04:24] Kathi: Pre- premarital counseling, so for couples that are about to get married, and one of the things that we're gonna talk about in that is if we... It's, it's kind of like preventing the fight from happening. [04:24–04:24] Abigail: Uh-huh. [04:24–04:36] Kathi: So if we, if we were to ha- like, if we were to have conflict, how can, if by talking it out beforehand, how can I help you with conflict? [04:36–04:36] Abigail: Mm-hmm. [04:36–04:47] Kathi: Or how can, Or, or maybe even talk about the situations that might cause conflict and discuss them whenever you're not, stressed out. [04:47–04:48] Abigail: Yes. But [04:48–04:50] Kathi: discuss them- That's true ... before they happen- [04:50–04:50] Abigail: Mm-hmm [04:50–04:52] Kathi: ... so then you can prevent. [04:52–04:59] Abigail: I think that would be great- Mm-hmm ... like, before they happen because sometimes if it already happened and you try to fix it- [04:59–04:59] Kathi: Mm-hmm [04:59–05:02] Abigail: like, it already leaves kinda, like, a stain. A [05:02–05:03] Kathi: little scar. [05:03–05:08] Abigail: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kind of like that. Absolutely. So preventative is nice. Mm-hmm. It's really great. I would g- [05:09–05:20] Kathi: So it t- it teaches couples to, how to... You know, and, and you ask your partner. Mm-hmm. You know, "What can I do in a stressful situation? What, what would I do that would trigger you?" [05:20–05:20] Abigail: Yes. [05:20–05:24] Kathi: " What, what are the things that I would do that would make it worse?" [05:24–05:25] Abigail: Yes. [05:25–05:33] Kathi: " So that I can be more aware of that. And then also, what are the things that would help, help to make it better?" [05:33–05:33] Abigail: Mm-hmm. [05:33–05:39] Kathi: And so talking about those things beforehand can be a good insight for newlywed couples. [05:39–05:50] Abigail: Yes, and planning, planning how to deal with it, like, if situation can arise in the future. [05:50–06:03] Abigail: Mm-hmm. You know? I saw this, this video on social media, and something like they were just about to get into, you know, a huge- [06:03–06:04] Kathi: A huge fight. [06:04–06:08] Abigail: Yeah. And they just look at h- each other, but you can feel the tension. [06:08–06:09] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [06:09–06:15] Abigail: And then one of them said like, I think it was the husband said like, "Okay, just go to sleep. [06:16–06:19] Abigail: Just go to, go to the room, just get some rest." Mm-hmm. [06:19–06:19] Kathi: Oh, sure. [06:20–06:22] Abigail: You know, go to sleep. And then- [06:23–06:23] Kathi: It's, it's good [06:24–06:25] Abigail: to just- "I will just be here"- [06:25–06:25] Kathi: Mm-hmm [06:25–06:33] Abigail: ... watch TV and see," you know, to calm him down, "and then we will talk w- after you had sleep." [06:34–06:49] Kathi: You know, that's a very good point. one of the things that I counsel with couples about is, you know, when, when people first get married, there's one of the things, one of the advices that some of the elders will always give is never go to bed angry. [06:50–06:50] Abigail: Mm-hmm. [06:50–06:53] Kathi: Well, I'm, I'm gonna disagree with that. [06:53–06:53] Abigail: Mm. [06:53–07:08] Kathi: Because let's say you guys start having some sort of conflict at, say, 10:00 at night, and you've been kind of arguing this for hours. Well, it's time to go to bed. [07:08–07:09] Abigail: Yeah. [07:09–07:11] Kathi: Nothing good is gonna happen at 2:00 in the morning. [07:11–07:11] Abigail: Mm-hmm. [07:11–07:14] Kathi: You're not gonna solve it at 2:00 in the morning. [07:14–07:21] Kathi: Yes. It's better to take a pause. We still need to resolve whatever we need to resolve. [07:21–07:21] Kathi: Yeah. [07:21–07:25] Abigail: But let's do it after we've had sleep. Because when we're sleep deprived- [07:26–07:27] Abigail: Yes, exactly [07:27–07:31] Kathi: ... we don't, we don't put our best foot forward when we are sleep deprived. [07:31–07:33] Abigail: And we will may say worse [07:33–07:34] Kathi: things- We may say worse things [07:34–07:35] Abigail: in the world- [07:35–07:36] Kathi: Absolutely [07:36–07:40] Abigail: ... that would make the situation more- Worse ... critical. [07:40–07:42] Kathi: Yes. Yes. But it's important to just take a pause. [07:42–07:43] Abigail: Mm-hmm. [07:43–07:54] Kathi: Kiss each other good night. Yes. I do, I do believe in always kiss each other good night, even if you're- not exceptionally happy with your partner at the time. [07:54–07:55] Abigail: At the time. [07:55–07:55] Kathi: Yeah. [07:55–08:14] Abigail: You can still kiss and say I love you 'cause you still do even though you might not be happy at the moment. Mm-hmm. You might be aggravated about something, stressed about something- Mm-hmm ... irritated, but, you know, it's important to still let your partner know that you love them even though you're grr. [08:15–08:15] Kathi: Yeah. [08:16–08:17] Abigail: You know, I still love you- Yes, [08:17–08:18] Kathi: yes [08:18–08:22] Abigail: ... but I'm aggravated about this situation right now. It's okay. You can still have both. [08:23–08:23] Kathi: Yes. [08:23–08:37] Abigail: And we will because conflict is gonna arise. It doesn't matter who you are or how great of a relationship the two have, conflict will arise. Mm-hmm. The outside world is gonna put conflict on you. [08:38–09:00] Kathi: Yes. You're gonna have... You know, and then the other thing is one of the reasons that couples are gonna have conflict is because we often are attracted to somebody who is different than us. Because if you ha- if you, if you married or partnered up with- the exact same version of yourself, life would be boring. [09:01–09:01] Abigail: Mm-hmm. [09:01–09:05] Kathi: The opposites attract saying is so true. [09:05–09:05] Abigail: Mm-hmm. [09:05–09:24] Kathi: We do. We, we f- we seek out someone who is different than us. So what that means is we're gonna have differences of opinions. Opinions, yeah. We're gonna have different personal values, and sometimes those can cause your perpetual arguments that you seem to get stuck in all the time. [09:25–09:31] Abigail: Mm-hmm. There are some arguments that you'll never 100% resolve because you- [09:31–09:32] Kathi: You view things differently [09:32–09:40] Abigail: ... you, right. Yeah. You come from different backgrounds. You come from a different world, and you are- Mm-hmm ... viewing things differently. So conflict is going to happen. [09:41–09:41] Kathi: Yes. [09:41–09:43] Abigail: Con- but conflict happens everywhere, too. [09:44–09:45] Kathi: You're gonna have conflict at your job. [09:46–09:46] Abigail: Yes. [09:46–09:48] Kathi: You're gonna have conflict with your friends. [09:48–09:49] Abigail: Yes. [09:49–09:57] Kathi: it... Now, conflict doesn't mean it's bad. It just means you have different opinions and different views about things. Mm-hmm. And so you talk it out. [09:57–10:01] Abigail: It's a matter of how we are, handling it. [10:01–10:02] Kathi: Absolutely. [10:02–10:02] Abigail: Mm-hmm. [10:03–10:05] Abigail: And that, those are stressors. [10:05–10:05] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [10:06–10:06] Abigail: Yes. [10:06–10:08] Kathi: They really are. They really are. [10:08–10:13] Abigail: Those are stressors, so how we handle the stress- [10:13–10:13] Kathi: Mm [10:13–10:16] Abigail: ... you know, it's what, what is important. [10:16–10:17] Kathi: Absolutely. [10:17–10:17] Abigail: Like that. [10:17–10:17] Kathi: Absolutely. [10:18–10:29] Abigail: And because the thing is, like, whichever, wherever the stress coming from, you go home to that person. [10:29–10:29] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [10:30–10:38] Abigail: And that person that you go home to is the one that's gonna take in and absorb all, everything, all the- [10:38–10:38] Kathi: Mm [10:38–10:40] Abigail: negative energy that you bring home. [10:40–10:47] Kathi: And, you know- But- ... and, and then there's your o- your partner, too, because they may be experiencing the exact same thing. [10:47–10:47] Abigail: Yes. [10:47–10:49] Kathi: Maybe you both had a hard day at work. [10:49–10:49] Abigail: Yes. [10:50–10:54] Kathi: Maybe, you know, who knows? I mean, there's all different kind of things that- [10:54–10:56] Abigail: So self-care is very important. [10:56–11:03] Abigail: Of course. Self-care and self-awareness, not only with, like, mentally, emotionally, also physically as well. [11:03–11:03] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [11:03–11:14] Abigail: And how we are, How I'm gonna say it, how it shows up to our partner. Sure. It's so, important for us to be aware of that. [11:15–11:15] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [11:15–11:26] Abigail: You know, because then it takes... Because if we only say like, "You have to understand me because I'm so stressed out," then it's kind of like leaning towards like a little bit of selfishness. [11:26–11:27] Abigail: It's all about us. [11:27–11:27] Kathi: Sure. [11:27–11:36] Abigail: But we, a lot of times we don't think of how our action, how we deal with our own stress affects the other person. [11:36–11:42] Kathi: Mm-hmm, absolutely, absolutely. Well, you know, we could talk about this for hours. [11:42–11:43] Abigail: Yes. [11:43–11:47] Kathi: And I think we should maybe divide this into another po- a second podcast. [11:47–11:48] Abigail: Uh-huh, absolutely. [11:48–11:48] Abigail: I would love that. [11:48–11:54] Kathi: and talk about maybe, maybe on that s- the next one, we'll talk about some resolutions- [11:54–11:55] Abigail: Yes, like- [11:55–11:55] Kathi: ... and things [11:55–12:03] Abigail: ... therapies- Mm-hmm ... and other like external, medium that we will be able to use for, that would help- [12:03–12:03] Kathi: Mm-hmm [12:03–12:07] Abigail: ... you know, and, each individual to deal with the stress. [12:07–12:08] Kathi: Absolutely. [12:08–12:09] Kathi: Absolutely. That's [12:09–12:10] Abigail: wonderful. Well, thank you, Cathy. [12:10–12:20] Kathi: So, so is there anything... Before we go, is there anything that you want to promote with your business? Do you have any specials going on? [12:20–12:27] Abigail: I do. I offer the, I form a package- [12:27–12:27] Kathi: Mm [12:27–12:34] Abigail: ... for everybody. It's like you buy a 10-session package, and then you get three sessions free. [12:35–12:35] Kathi: Mm. [12:35–12:47] Abigail: The reason why I do that is to help everybody out. this kind of like- A different perspective or a different view on massage therapy in this community. [12:47–12:47] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [12:47–13:04] Abigail: I understand, like, you know, for a long time, people think of massage as just kind of like a... Just for relaxation, just for, help me come up with a term. [13:04–13:05] Kathi: So I- [13:05–13:06] Abigail: Just for like a luxury. [13:06–13:06] Kathi: Oh, [13:06–13:29] Abigail: yeah. Kind of like that, right? But, the reason I created this package is to help make people understand that massage therapy is therapeutic. Mm-hmm. Not just for- Feel good ... relaxati- relaxation, like temporary feel good. Although that helps, especially with dealing with the stress. [13:30–13:30] Kathi: Sure. [13:30–13:49] Abigail: But when, in my practice, that's why I call it massage clinic, it's not just a massage studio or, you know. It's a massage clinic. It's because I am trained to, do orthopedic massage, medical massage, which is dealing with pain. [13:49–13:49] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [13:50–14:00] Abigail: So I work on the core issue of why you are going through, these muscle issues. [14:00–14:00] Kathi: Mm. [14:00–14:20] Abigail: You know, you're having back pain, you're having sciatica. Mm-hmm. you're having migraine. And all those triggers actually affects, like what we mentioned earlier. Right. It affects how we show up to our family, how we show up to our partner. [14:20–14:21] Kathi: Mm-hmm. You [14:21–14:30] Abigail: know, it affects our intimacy. We're just talking e- earlier about, like, how it affects the blood flow, you know, in that area that affects our, the reproductive system- [14:31–14:31] Kathi: Mm-hmm [14:31–14:33] Abigail: in both men and women, you know. [14:33–14:40] Kathi: You know, it's so interesting because, what we do is so aligned even though- Yes ... we do different things, counseling versus massage. [14:40–14:40] Abigail: Uh-huh. [14:40–14:45] Kathi: you know, it's, it... We have the same goal in mind for- Yes ... our clients. [14:45–14:52] Abigail: Yes, yes. And I do have the cranio sacral therapy which targets the central nervous system. [14:52–14:52] Kathi: Mm. [14:52–15:11] Abigail: You know, it works on the flow of the res- cerebrospinal fluid- Mm ... from your cranium to your sacrum, back and forth on your spine. Mm-hmm. That's what we call, CSF. and that, if we work on that, that really helps a lot on a person's, you know, stressors. [15:11–15:12] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [15:12–15:15] Abigail: it works, because it works in the central nervous system. [15:15–15:29] Abigail: Mm-hmm. And by giving that package to the public, a package of 10 and you get three free, it gives them s- the chance, it gives them the chance to, share it with their family. [15:29–15:30] Kathi: Oh, nice. So- [15:30–15:32] Abigail: Yes, on a discounted prices. [15:32–15:33] Kathi: Right. [15:33–15:40] Abigail: Share it with their family, and I have some clients that they need to be here, like, frequently, like regular basis. [15:40–15:47] Abigail: Right. S- I have some client that comes in that once a week once every two weeks or once a month. [15:48–15:48] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [15:48–15:53] Abigail: And that package help them a lot. Right You know, and the, with the pockets. [15:53–15:53] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [15:53–16:09] Abigail: And last year I have, also clients that share some of them with their family and friends. That gives the other, you know, their other friends or family to have the chance to experience what is the therapeutic massage is. [16:09–16:13] Kathi: And you could do the couples, you know, that... So that would be two of your sessions. [16:13–16:13] Abigail: Yes. [16:13–16:15] Kathi: That you could share with your couple too. [16:15–16:15] Abigail: Yes. [16:15–16:16] Kathi: I- You do a couples massage. [16:16–16:24] Abigail: Yes. I do the couples massage, and with that set up that really, really helps. [16:24–16:24] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [16:24–16:32] Abigail: With the couple. And like I mentioned earlier, once they come out of that couples room, they... [16:32–16:38] Abigail: You can tell that the bond is connected differently. [16:38–16:38] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [16:38–16:42] Abigail: You know? More closer than when they came in. [16:42–16:42] Kathi: Right. [16:42–16:54] Abigail: Yes. And it's kinda like there are more, how I'm gonna say it, softer, vulnerable, you know? Sure. You can even tell, like, they just wanna hug each other. Aw. Kind of like that. Yes. I [16:54–16:55] Kathi: love that. [16:55–16:56] Abigail: Yes. I love that. [16:56–17:17] Abigail: So because not only that they are getting that, therapeutic massage that would work on their central nervous system- Mm-hmm ... while they are at the r- in that room, but because they are both in there together, you know? And I've seen couples, like, they'll giggle. You know, they'll giggle. And some of them, like, they will, occasionally checking on each other. [17:17–17:18] Kathi: Aw. [17:18–17:23] Abigail: " Hey, boo, are you okay?" You know, something like that. Mm-hmm. So it, it really is amazing [17:24–17:25] Kathi: for couples. That's awesome. [17:25–17:25] Abigail: Yeah. [17:25–17:37] Kathi: Mm-hmm. So, so whether you find her in downtown Hattiesburg or downtown Laurel, downtown Abby can help relieve the stress in your life. [17:37–17:38] Abigail: Thank you. I appreciate [17:38–17:43] Kathi: that. Yes. Yes. Yes. So I have, something that I'm gonna plug. [17:43–18:05] Kathi: I'm gonna tell you a little bit more about, about the class that I have coming up, and that i- it's called How to Fight. And I just wanna check my phone real quick and double check the date on it. So that is... Where am I at? [18:05–18:27] Kathi: So October 13th, that is on a Tuesday, at 6:00. This is gonna be a free class. This is gonna be in person at Hall Health. And, so, so come and see if, if this is something that you would, ... Well, and you can come with your partner. If your partner's out of town, you can come by yourself. bring a friend. [18:27–19:01] Kathi: But come and, come and learn about, how to communicate and during conflict. So again, that's Tuesday, October 13th, 6:00 at Hall Health. All right, so and also if you are interested in, couples coaching and couples counseling, you can find me and book an appointment at kathypepper.com/contact and you can put some information there, and we'll set up, a session for you and your partner with me. [19:03–19:03] Abigail: Wonderful. [19:03–19:11] Kathi: All right. Thanks, Kathy. Well, we will continue this discussion on our next podcast and talk about how to get some stress out of your life. [19:12–19:13] Abigail: Thank you, Kathy. [19:13–19:14] Kathi: Thank you, Abigail. [19:15–19:15] Kathi: All right [19:15–19:28] Abigail: I actually have a part here where I- but we can talk about it next time- Mm-hmm ... where I mention about now I'm looking at things differently on the massage ther- therapy perspective. [19:28–19:28] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [19:28–19:30] Abigail: That those novelty items- [19:31–19:31] Kathi: Mm-hmm [19:31–19:36] Abigail: ... they are not just novelty items for fun. Yeah. They're a- actually- [19:36–19:36] Kathi: Tools [19:36–19:37] Abigail: ... part of... [19:37–19:38] Abigail: tools for the therapy. [19:38–19:38] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [19:38–19:45] Abigail: You know, like the lubricants. Mm-hmm. You know, stuff like that. Mm-hmm. They, they are tools because... And I'm gonna mention it- [19:45–19:45] Kathi: Oh, yeah [19:45–19:49] Abigail: ... also, like when we went to the perimenopause- [19:49–19:49] Kathi: Mm-hmm [19:49–19:53] Abigail: ... you know, when we went to, Hall, Dr. Hall's- Mm-hmm ... event. [19:53–19:54] Kathi: Right. [19:54–20:01] Abigail: And I would say, like, it, as a massage therapist, it opens, it actually opens my mind when I went to that event- [20:02–20:02] Kathi: Mm-hmm [20:02–20:06] Abigail: because, those are necessary tools- [20:06–20:07] Kathi: Mm-hmm [20:07–20:12] Abigail: ... for, for us. Mm-hmm. It's not a joke- Right ... going through a perimenopause. [20:12–20:12] Kathi: No. [20:12–20:14] Abigail: This is medical- [20:14–20:14] Kathi: Mm-hmm [20:14–20:16] Abigail: ... situation. Mm-hmm. This is not just something, [20:17–20:20] Kathi: you know? Well, if your body isn't producing lubricant, you've gotta get it somewhere. [20:20–20:21] Abigail: Yeah, exactly. [20:21–20:23] Kathi: Because it's just like, you know, when you have [20:23–20:24] Abigail: sex- 'Cause a lo- a lot of people would... [20:25–20:27] Abigail: You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Especially like religious people. [20:27–20:28] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [20:28–20:32] Abigail: But then I want to change their mindset, how they look at it. [20:32–20:32] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [20:32–20:33] Abigail: You know what I mean? [20:33–20:44] Kathi: Mm-hmm. But like when you, when you have sex, you know, you're... So friction, sex and massage, you have friction in both places, so if you don't use some sort of massage oil, it actually hurts. [20:44–20:56] Abigail: It is. Mm-hmm. It hurts, and it causes like, you know, like internal bruising. It actually causes- Micro tears ... yeah, micro tears, and it actually cause like, yeah, like in- infections too. [20:56–20:57] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [20:57–20:57] Abigail: You know? [20:57–21:04] Kathi: Yeah, 'cause when you, when you f- have a micro tear, then that's where your bacteria can get into those. Can get [21:04–21:04] Abigail: in. [21:04–21:07] Abigail: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So it is important. It's really important. Absolutely. [21:07–21:08] Kathi: Absolutely. [21:08–21:11] Abigail: People has to change the, the way they think. [21:11–21:11] Kathi: Mm-hmm. [21:11–21:12] Abigail: You know? [21:12–21:14] Kathi: Use the tools. Why not? [21:14–21:17] Abigail: Yes. It's therapeutic too. Yes. [21:17–21:20] Kathi: Yep. Well, I'm gonna get a snack. [21:20–21:21] Abigail: Yeah. Have [21:21–21:23] Kathi: you got my grits over there? I have your whole bag. Thank you. Awesome. [21:23–21:26] Abigail: I'm gonna talk to you soon. That was a really [21:26–21:26] Kathi: good [21:26–21:27] Abigail: conversation. Oh. [21:27–21:30] Kathi: I think so too. Appreciate you. I think we did good. I think we did good